tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post7658629939997271024..comments2023-10-28T00:50:02.006-07:00Comments on Low and Left Part Deux: The Big Threeidiosynchronichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15130385037526106860noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post-21606285979793573392008-11-21T09:21:00.000-08:002008-11-21T09:21:00.000-08:00If the big three go bankrupt, the PBGC takes over....<I>If the big three go bankrupt, the PBGC takes over.</I><BR/><BR/>And the PBGC pulls money out of the sky along with the cotton candy that drips from the clouds. You really are stupid.<BR/><BR/><I>I knew you'd be happy, but I thought you'd (collectively) would be more optimistic with Total Democrat Domination in Washington DC.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, I am very happy. However, Bush is working more efficiently than he has in the last 8 years to ram through BS regs (or lack of regs), BS rules and to fuck up things even worse than he already has. We need an emergency session that moves up the turn-over to tomorrow instead of Jan 20th.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately they can really screw us in this 2 months that are left.<BR/><BR/><I>Massive nuclear power plants is the only way if we want clean air.</I><BR/><BR/>Nuclear power plants are the only way to go if we want a US Chernobyl and a great big stockpile of nuclear waste.<BR/><BR/>Hey, you ever heard of biomimicry? That is what we need.<BR/><BR/>WE have all of the technology available to us to have a totally green, self-sufficient, self-renewing energy system. It is all there.<BR/><BR/>We do not need to invest in nuclear power plants - which we the people insure because no private insurance company will and that will take 30 years to build. That is a waste of time and money for a product that causes more trouble than it is worth.<BR/><BR/>The technology is available right now, we need only political will.<BR/><BR/><I>What the hell are we going to plug those into, coal-fired electric plants? That'd be worse than burning oil for fuel.</I><BR/><BR/>Nope - wind and solar power plants. We also have tide energy, geothermal, and hydro-power (hydro-power where the environment is not harmed). We have the technology.<BR/><BR/>CA already has the infrastructure to plug in the all EV. It was built in the 90s - for the EV1 and other cars, until the Bush Admin got involved and changed the CA laws that mandated a percentage of clean burning vehicles and GM pulled the EV1. Dumb asses.<BR/><BR/>Building the infrastructure is also a jobs program which we dearly need.<BR/><BR/><I>The US auto makers are losing about $1500 per car.</I><BR/><BR/>They are losing that money due to healthcare and pensions - and your numbers are wrong - they are not losing it per car, healthcare and pensions cost them that amount per vehicle. Every other civilized Nation has Universal Healthcare and a National Pension Program. They do not have to pay those costs.<BR/><BR/>The greatest thing for business in the US would be Universal Healthcare and a restructuring of our pension programs.<BR/><BR/>Our US Auto companies are not competing with Asian auto companies or German auto companies...they are competing with <I>Countries</I>. We cannot expect them to be able to compete with Nations.Anjhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07361105317942756776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post-19262138814614895802008-11-21T08:59:00.000-08:002008-11-21T08:59:00.000-08:00I was banned over at the left coaster!You're welco...<I>I was banned over at the left coaster!</I><BR/><BR/>You're welcome, everyone.iamcoyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631661893959211562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post-35945092191569934282008-11-21T08:23:00.000-08:002008-11-21T08:23:00.000-08:00Well, Seven, I'd say foreign countries are also de...Well, Seven, I'd say foreign countries are also dependent on us for their survival.<BR/><BR/>And people's pensions are protected via the PBGC. If the big three go bankrupt, the PBGC takes over.<BR/><BR/>Anjha, I've been awake! I was banned over at the left coaster! I went there after the election to see how you guys were reacting. I knew you'd be happy, but I thought you'd (collectively) would be more optimistic with Total Democrat Domination in Washington DC.<BR/><BR/>You sound a little like Ross Perot. If we want to get off of oil, the answer is more fuel efficient and electric vehicles. But we need electricity to plug those batteries into the grid. Massive nuclear power plants is the only way if we want clean air.<BR/><BR/>I was reading over at the left coaster how paradox wanted massive build out of electric cars. What the hell are we going to plug those into, coal-fired electric plants? That'd be worse than burning oil for fuel.<BR/><BR/>The US auto makers are losing about $1500 per car. Toyota, Honda, et al make about $2000 per car. Seems to me that if you have a hole in your pocket, putting more change in your pocket is a bad idea. We already have up to $50B authorized for US auto companies for alternative fuel cars. Now another $25B they want. <BR/><BR/>And losing $1500 per car, how long will that $25B last before they come back and ask for more?<BR/><BR/>At a $6B per month burn rate, not very long.muckdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09964364454247504787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post-86438752691767890192008-11-21T07:14:00.000-08:002008-11-21T07:14:00.000-08:00Crap, look who woke up. Sleeping dogs lie.The pro...Crap, look who woke up. Sleeping dogs lie.<BR/><BR/>The problem, Muck, is that America already does not make very much. Look at all of the shit that we import. Look at our trade deficit.<BR/><BR/>America has some great R&D. So, we invent shit and then it is built elsewhere. This is bad. This is very bad for America.<BR/><BR/>We are talking about American Manufacturing. Not just automobiles.<BR/><BR/>Think about foreign oil, look at how dependent we are on other countries <I>good will</I> for our National Security. What would happen if OPEC decided that they just will not ship us anymore oil? We'd be fucked. Now, transfer that to other Ntl Security products.<BR/><BR/>We do not make anything here anymore.<BR/><BR/>So much of our weaponry - not that I advocate using it, but if we needed to...how much of our weaponry or major components of it are made in other countries? We cannot even build a fucking bomb or a tank or a gun anymore without importing the chips or the steel or some part of it. American manufacturing dying is not good for America.<BR/><BR/>What if the country that makes the chips for our bombs were suddenly the country that we had to go to war with...again, not that I advocate war at all, but it is really fucking stupid that we are dependent on so many foreign nations for products that we need.<BR/><BR/>Now, transfer that to all other industries. Transfer it to all other Manufacturing industries. We are screwed already. Losing the auto companies and their suppliers endangers us even more.<BR/><BR/>The auto industry and the defense industry are all tied together. It would be a dumb move.<BR/><BR/><I>Well, the foreign auto companies build cars here and pay $29 less per hour on "total compensation."</I><BR/><BR/>OK, so they do not pay adequate healthcare or adequate retirement - who do you think does pay those things? Instead of the employees being able to rely on a pension when they retire, they have to rely on SS. Instead of the employees being able to rely on healthcare when they retire, they have to rely on Medicaid. So - the foreign auto companies might pay a salary but the American people - all of us - pay those other costs.<BR/><BR/><I>Isn't that "American manufacturing" if foreign companies are building cars here?</I><BR/><BR/>Uh, no. Again, if we went to war with Japan do you think that an American Honda or Toyota plant will manufacture bombs or planes or tanks for that endeavor or do you think that the factory would be shut down? No, I am not advocating war I am speaking in realistic terms that we should not base our future - any of it - on relationships that might not be there.<BR/><BR/><I>If one or more of the Big Three went bankrupt, wouldn't those foreign companies pick up many of those workers and expand?</I><BR/><BR/>Damn you are really not that dumb are you?<BR/><BR/>If one goes bankrupt all of them will go. No, those workers will not be "picked up." If they go bankrupt millions and millions of people will lose pensions and healthcare and we the people will end up paying for it.<BR/><BR/>Not to mention that bankruptcy will not work with the auto industry. First of all bankruptcy will not work because the auto industry cannot get loans to restructure because the fucking credit market is frozen.<BR/><BR/>Also, people do not buy cars from bankrupt companies.<BR/><BR/><I>But if the unions won't renegotiate the contracts, then there's little room to do much else.</I><BR/><BR/>Hey - dumb ass - you are speaking out of your ass.<BR/><BR/>UAW renegotiated contracts. The wages are going down. By 2010 new hires will make 1/2 of what they do now. It is being phased in. UAW has made more concessions than any union ever should have. They did so in a good faith effort to save the industry.<BR/><BR/>All of the auto companies were turning a profit Q1 of this year. The credit crunch hit them extremely hard because consumers cannot get loans and people are not buying vehicles. Sales have decreased almost 50%.<BR/><BR/>This is why this is an emergency. It is a global economic crisis that our country caused with our piss poor oversight and BS lack of regulations that killed the markets. <BR/><BR/>The auto industry had already restructured and they were doing better until the market collapsed. Their problem right now is no different than what the other industries went through and is exactly what happened in the financial svcs industry with GMAC and Chrysler Finanancial who are both lending companies. Dumb ass.Anjhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07361105317942756776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post-1053263232505854112008-11-21T06:10:00.000-08:002008-11-21T06:10:00.000-08:00Isn't that "American manufacturing" if foreign com...<I>Isn't that "American manufacturing" if foreign companies are building cars here?</I><BR/><BR/>That's just it muck, they can pull out anytime they want and go home... <B>we are dependent on foreign companies for our survival...</B> it has not worked out so well for us on energy why would we so gullible to believe it would work in the manufacturing sector. Let's use it as an example.<BR/><BR/>Hey, Michael Moore warned 20 years ago of this problem. They need a quick turn around and fast. <BR/><BR/>People's pensions should be protected. With Obama's new healthcare plan and the right to Unionize it will only help us in the long run.Seven of Sixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09331035803972630321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post-52639899678363768282008-11-20T23:54:00.000-08:002008-11-20T23:54:00.000-08:00Well, the foreign auto companies build cars here a...Well, the foreign auto companies build cars here and pay $29 less per hour on "total compensation." Isn't that "American manufacturing" if foreign companies are building cars here? If one or more of the Big Three went bankrupt, wouldn't those foreign companies pick up many of those workers and expand?<BR/><BR/>The big three have been poorly managed. Maybe the best thing to happen is to ctrl-alt-delete on those suckers. Yes, it'd suck for the workers. But if the unions won't renegotiate the contracts, then there's little room to do much else.muckdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09964364454247504787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4517715971621462038.post-57820795896129351612008-11-20T17:56:00.000-08:002008-11-20T17:56:00.000-08:00Randi Rhodes made a good comment today, something ...Randi Rhodes made a good comment today, something to the effect, "We already have a foreign dependence on energy, look where that got us. Do we really want to have foreign dependence on manufacturing as well!"<BR/><BR/>I have to agree, we have to save the Big 3. But I really have to say fuck the executives. Too many people are being rewarded for piss poor work. That shit has to stop. <BR/><BR/>I really think all this stuff should be nationalized for a period of time, then once it's stable let it back to being private. We need the Big 3 for the military as well. It is an issue of national security. <BR/><BR/>I heard that because of the piss poor economy that recruitment is up for the military. Some shit ain't it, so poor they'll risk lives for work. All part of the GOP plan. And we know those fuckers will sabotage the Dems anyway they can.Seven of Sixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09331035803972630321noreply@blogger.com