Thursday, May 8, 2008

Let's Play "I Win!"

Look, I try hard to avoid the pie-fight, but this just has my blood boiling:

Clinton Camp Says It Will Use Nuclear Option

This galls me. I'm a Michigan native, a resident of Marquette. I was home for post-deployment leave, and the primary was supposed to be happening while I was in-state. Unfortunately, as I was preparing to vote, I learned that my home state had broken DNC protocol and pushed its primary forward. As a result, most of the candidates followed the party line and removed themselves from the ballot. Out of the major contenders, only Hillary kept her hat in the ring, hoping to score an easy win. As such, I was disappointed to learn that my candidate of choice wouldn't be on the ballot. Thanks a lot, Michigan.

Clinton says that the "votes of 2.5 million people" should be counted, to which I respond: WHY? My vote didn't count, so why the fuck should you get your way just for the sake of political gain? If the tables were turned, you wouldn't give a shit about those 2.5 million votes. You just care because they voted for you.

You know what? Fuck you. Just fuck you.


Ripley said...


I'd feel the same way if it had been Obama on the ballot. The state screwed up, and the state is responsible for denying its citizens and delegates their democratic right to choose (which, imo, is esp. galling for the supporters of the now-forgotten candidates: Edwards et al).

If they insist on seating the delegates, I think it should as close to a 50/50 split as possible. Neither candidate deserves a majority of delegates at this point.

Seven of Six said...

Milo, In all my research on these issues I do believe Kucinich was on the ballot as well. Not that it mattered.

Just from the name recognition alone must have been swayed thousand of voters. It's a really screwed up situation.

My ire still goes towards the republi-con state legislators in both MI and FL. Another dirty trick played on unsuspecting voting Independents and Democrats in that state. They knew the rules of the DNC and what really blows my mind is the Dem. governor of MI signed it into law.
It was how they did it that is screwed up, they tried to say it would help the elections. Ha!

FL was a little different, a Republi-con governor signed it into law.

iamcoyote said...

Huh. Can someone define "nuclear option" here, 'cos the only one saying that in the link you gave is some guy named Larry Sabato, who is supposedly some kind of university professor who goes on tv and who's been arguing against Hillary for over a year now.

From the articles linked, it looks like she's planning to make her case to the Rules and Bylaws committee, which, as you know, defines the rules for the DNC. The article is also from the day before the NC and IN, and says that Hillary would consider going to the R&BC if she does very well in Tuesday's primary. So I'm not sure what all the fury is about here.

Seven of Six said...

Can someone define "nuclear option" here...

I got this from Wiki:

Beyond the specific context of U.S. federal judicial appointments, the term "nuclear option" has come to be used generically for a procedural maneuver with potentially serious consequences, to be used as a last resort to overcome political opposition.

iamcoyote said...

Ah. So, someone opposed to someone doing something (whether it has serious consequences or not, like, I don't know, making your case to the Rules committee maybe) could label something a "nuclear option" to make people think it's more serious and dangerous than it really is for the purposes of firing up opposition to that someone who is doing something normal and not at all "nuclear." I'm assuming since nothing has actually been done yet, it also serves as a pre-emptive strike against that person in the hopes of stopping him/her from doing what was going to happen anyways.

Huh. Funny how labels will change perceptions, huh?

Milo Freeman said...

Label all you want. My vote was effectively rigged against me. Now someone who couldn't get it played wants to give legitimacy to her ill-gotten gains. If this is what we get in the primary, what will we get in the general?

Between this, flag pins, and the idiots who'd rather vote for McCain over the opposing candidate, I'm once again starting to seriously lose faith in my fellow countrymen.

Bread and circuses, motherfuckers. Bread and circuses.

Seven of Six said...

Call it a "nulcear option" or not, I really don't care.

Hillary is still trying to change the rules to fit her needs, after already agreeing to one set of rules.

Jeff Dinelli said...

Bread and circuses, indeed. That's why I'm concentrating right now on Michigan's Red Wings. And Pistons.

I just wanted to stop by and say hello and congrats and good luck and I'll be back frequently if you'll have me.

Blogging has become painful at TLC. I'm not the most stable guy to begin with, but being called a "pompous ass" and "hopelessly ignorant" on a post about MY DAUGHTER is the final straw. Like Coyote knows, I'm hanging at Shakesville and she told me about your site and I like it!

Coyote, SoS, Snark, idio, you were my favs over there. Good luck and most importantly HAVE FUN.

Oh, and Milo, I feel your pain here, Dude. The Mich/FL thing is all fucked up.

I'll be around...

Seven of Six said...

Red Wings? Pistons? Arghh!! Hate 'em both!

They are great teams though. I've had my battles with the Red Wings when I was living in Colorado. I'm just a West Coast (Division) kind of guy.

I know everybody likes their region or locals. I've always been a West fan. Comes to anything in sports, if there from the West I'll root for them before an East Coast team. Or call them I see them.

I've had it rough in the Army, most everybody was for East Coast teams in everything.

Mom's finally out of the Hospital. Hoo-Ray!!

iamcoyote said...

Hi Jeff! Nice to see you!

Milo, SoS, you missed my point, cos I didn't make it very well. I wondered about the "nuclear option" because I thought there was some actual thing that it denoted. It turned out that number one, the Clinton Camp didn't say "nuclear option" they said they were going to make their case to the Rules and Bylaws committee. Meaning (to me) she's going to find out if there are any rules to find a way to get MI and FL counted. Sure, she's got a vested interest, but I think Obama does as well. He's going to need those two states to win in the GE, won't he? We all know he's going to be the nominee; even if Hillary does manage to get the delegates seated, it's not going to put her over the top, so there's no nukes there. Secondly, that label was meant to make people think she was going to do something explosive, which is why the Sabato guy used the term (as far as I could tell, none of her people did so), to get you to keep being angry. It worked, didn't it?

I think we all can agree that Hillary will not be able to "steal" anything, don't we? She's got to finish out the process because that's what her donors expect. Obama has to let the process finish out if he's going to woo over the angry Hillary fans and avoid the illegitimate label. This kind of media manipulation should piss all of us off, shouldn't it? They're the ones who turned it into the circus that it is now, as well as the blogs who followed along. You can't blame Hillary for the division, nor can you blame Obama. If you do, you have to blame bothe equally for not reining in their supporters when it got ugly. Now we've got to find some way back, and we can help by not continuing a pie fight long after the reason for the fight is moot.

Now, if you want to be angry, try turning on the Blue Dogs. It appears one of the blogger darlings turned out to be one, and now she's blocking the passage of the new GI bill because it's a waste of money.


iamcoyote said...

I grew up on Detroit teams, having spent my entire childhood in MI. Still have lots of family there. It was a sad day when Tiger Stadium was closed. Sigh. I saw Al Kaline and Willie Horton (the good one), in person.

Anonymous said...

It's worth pointing out that even if MI and FL are seated, Hillary STILL might not pull it out. So you won't hear from Obama's camp on their final position, probably, until they know whether seating those delegations is (as we call it in the legal profession) "harmless error," or whether it would torpedo his chances.

~dj moonbat

iamcoyote said...

I get the feeling Dean's hoping Hillary pulls out, then he can seat their delegates however he wants and hope that they'll be appeased enough not to harm the Dems in November. But I really don't think it's delegates for Hillary, she needs the numbers to push her case as the winner of the popular votes. I don't think she'll get close. And the punditry's demands that she has no chance and should get out will make it impossible to win by much in the final primaries.

No matter what, though, neither gets the required number of delegates before the convention unless the the supers all state their preference now, but it's not looking like it's going to happen. Seems to me that's why everyone's so frantic to push her out - so they don't have to make a decision, they want her to make it for them. Basically, we the people are no longer part of the math, at least to them. Now it's all insider gaming. And it's not helping.

snark said...

I did see a good comment today, at MyDD I think. It might beneficial to Obama for Clinton to stay in until after West Virginia and Kentucky. He's likely to lose both and losing without any active competition would be something the punditry would love to fulminate on.

Has some merit I think.

Anonymous said...

snark, 'tis true. I heard the same on NPR last night.

It's really sad to see what the Mothership has become.

~ dj moonbat

idiosynchronic said...

Well, hopefully, the mothership will recover. I haven't quit reading altogether.


I had to go back through the last few days. Jeff, I'm deeply sorry that you got vivisected like that.

idiosynchronic said...

I have to admit that the last few days have been more readable on the front page.

snark said...

So much dementia from supporters of both.

Hadn't thunk it possible.

snark said...

I have to admit that the last few days have been more readable on the front page.

Not the comments though.

iamcoyote said...

I was really impressed with how Shakesville really came to Jeff's defense. It was heartwarming.

As for TLC, I think this is the last throes. Come on, most of those people coming in are not TLC regulars. But they've found a place where they feel they can vent their disappointment. It's a good thing. The only thing that will keep the die hard Hillary fans involved, even. Think about it, there haven't been many places where a Hillary supporter is welcome anymore. TLC provided that. I think Turkana's jumping the gun trying to force reconciliation before anyone's ready, but I trust it will happen. Let the Hillary people have their mourning - it's been an emotional time, no one's gonna turn on a dime. And as much as I'm gonna hate it, I know the Obama people are going to need to crow for a while. Let it happen. While some Hillary people will never go back to Kos, some will come back to TLC, because they won't feel quite so unwelcome. Give it time.

snark said...

I think this is the last throes.


Now you've done it!

iamcoyote said...

Oy! You're right! I meant last throes of the primary madness! Like I said over there, people are getting their ya-yas out, cos it's pretty certain Obama's the candidate. Did you think everyone would suddenly like up behind Obama? It'll happen, but not this week, fer gawd's sake!

iamcoyote said...

I meant "line up" of course.

idiosynchronic said...

Comments? What comments?

Seven of Six said...

I meant "line up" of course.

I thought you meant "lick up".

Crap, lately I barely get a chance to read the drivel, then barely comment on one that infuriates me. Like the stupid Brazile comment; talk about taking something out of context. Begala gots some 'splaining to do!

I guess everyone is still reaching... hoping it won't be over. The media is loving this shit, it makes me sick.

What about Cindy McShame not wanting to publish her tax returns? The 'pukes' crucified Theresa Heinz Kerry for not publishing her. That should make for good fodder, McGeezer is a kept man. Ha, ha, ha!

Anjha said...

Jeff, good to hear from you and I am sorry that there was so much shit thrown at you.

Thanks everyone for their patience with me.