First, it was blockades of a poverty-stricken region, a denial of access to food and medical supplies. Then, following a ceasefire, it became airstrikes in response to rocket attacks--Schools, hospitals, mosques, all destroyed. Then, it became a full-scale ground invasion of an already walled-off area. Then, even, more disturbing: whispers of the Israelis using phosphorus shells.
Now, by way of Firedoglake, we receive yet more grim news: obstruction of, and even attacks upon medical personnel.
By Israelis.
For those who would blather on about Israel's right to defend itself, I say this: nobody is arguing that right. Such is the right of EVERY sovereign nation. But phosphorus shells? Destruction of civilian facilities? Indiscriminate attacks against civilians and support personnel? May I remind you all that the current death toll, according to CNN, is 550+ to 8, Palestinians to Israelis? I'll even say it again: Five hundred and fifty plus, to EIGHT. Think about that. Think about it long and hard.
Look. We've all heard it a dozen times. "They're hiding among civilians." I get that, okay? We saw the same things in Iraq, and in Vietnam before that. It's the natural reaction of a people to what they perceive as a boot on their throats. Go back and read up on your American Revolution. Point is, the people being painted as the bad guys aren't just hiding amongst civilians. They ARE civilians. We don't have to approve of their methods or tactics, but they are human, and they DO have a reason to be angry. And right now, the only crime of which they stand accused is having the gall to fight back.
Remember what I've said: They're not hiding amongst civilians. They ARE civilians. I ask you all: If this isn't genocide, if this isn't pogrom, then what is it?
Tuesday, January 6, 2009
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I saw that, Milo. The US's client (or master, if you see it that way) has learned from the best that it can do what it wants, and not expect reprisals. Fuckers.
I think Israel is making a huge mistake. Urban warfare is always going to be ugly, and I don't know why Israel thinks that so much destruction will discourage Hamas or somehow convince the average Palestinian that they'd be better off with some other government. An Israeli on the news yesterday (military guy) said they want Hamas to say "wow, Israel really went berserk--this isn't worth it." It's not going to happen, especially with pictures of dead Palestinian children on TV every night. It's appalling. Even if it did work to stop the rocket fire, it's not worth it in lives obviously, but also it's not worth it in further damaging Israel's reputation.
I know average Israelis are torn. They feel like something has to be done, but they don't like this either. It's such an awful situation, but again, I just shake my head wondering what the answer is. I feel terrible for the Palestinians and as a Jew, I just feel enormously sad.
Nuke the damn rock throwers!
That's "proportional" right?
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/cartoons/2008/12/31/gaza380.jpg
Remember what I've said: They're not hiding amongst civilians. They ARE civilians. I ask you all: If this isn't genocide, if this isn't pogrom, then what is it?
It is complete BS.
AND - we are now complicit. Israel would not have acted as they have without the go ahead from the US. We all know that this is true.
We needed an immediate cease fire and Bush did not call for it. He is still not calling for it. WE, the PEOPLE, must. We need to march in the streets against Israel. This is just wrong.
The flaw is with those who continue to allow Israel to call themselves victims. Once a victim does not always a victim stay.
Yes history is the elephant in the room but if we were to shut the elephant in the barn and look at the actions of Israel in the last decade without the history disclaimer, we'd see a country that has become even more obsessed with its military prowess than it's very religious roots.
In the very words of the neighborhood, there wouldn't be any hesitation to wipe Israel out. But lately I've wondered. Has Israel's military platform become a stronger reason for hatred than the original singular hatred between 2 religions?
The flaw is with those who continue to allow Israel to call themselves victims. Once a victim does not always a victim stay.
Unless continuing to wear the mantle is beneficial. I know that sounds harsh, CG, but I was just watching Olberman, and it went to commercial break, but for a couple seconds, I didn't realize it, because it started with a "corrospondent" in a "flack jacket" talking about the abject terror the Palistinians have delivered to Israel, while images of wailing women fainting with the howwor were mingled with shots of a house (still standing) that was damaged in several rooms, but was still standing, at least. Needless to say, there were no images of what the other guys looked like.
Then an anguished woman's voice started describing how Israel was paralyzed by fear and won't you send a donation to help them...I don't know...see a counselor for those pesky panic attacks? It took me a while to realize it was commercial, and by then, I didn't think to write down the web site, but frikkin A, it was the most tasteless thing I'd ever seen, and I really frikkin' hate commercials that whine already.
Lemme get this straight. Your country is bombing the shit out of an area where the population just can't run away - shooting fish in a barrel. Fish weak and desperate because you've boxed them in and kept humanitarian aid out, no less. And then you start targeting medical areas and UN schools. And you have the fookin' balls to run a commercial saying "poor poor pitiful Israel, they're beleaguered, please won't you think of the children??" (to be fair, it's some supposed charity group, not Israel itself running the commercial) The only thing missing from the commercial was Sarah McLachlan singing about frikkin' angels. Dang.
And that's all I'm gonna say about that shit. I'm not on anybody's side, because both sides are still a bunch of killers of children and stealers of lives free of fear. At this point, who cares who's right or wrong. Just cut it out, dammit!
Sorry, one more thing. It was a war crime for the US to use cluster bombs in Iraqi neighborhoods, and it's a war crime for Israel to use them in Gaza.
One thing I don't understand that I've been trying to figure out is the issue of Palestinian refugees in Gaza. Gaza may not be a country, but it's Palestinian-run, so why are these people still considered refugees? I've been doing some reading trying to understand.
Palestinian refugees went to the various neighboring Arab countries where some have been treated better (Jordan) and some have been treated worse (Lebanon). In Jordan, they're generally full citizens, yet even after 60 years, they and their decendents are counted among Palestinian refugees, which apparently is an exception to the UN rules of who counts as a refugee. There are Arabs who are Israeli citizens. They're not considered refugees apparently.
Refugees in Gaza--these are people who fled or were forced out of their homes in what is now Israel, but they are now in a "country" run by their own people. So they're not in a "foreign" country, they're in basically what amounts to their own country. Are they refugees because they lost their homes? People flee war all the time and re-settle elsewhere. Palestinians who settled in the US are not counted as refugees are they? Jews who fled or were forced out of Arab countries and settled in Israel are not considered Iranian refugees or Syrian refugees. Soviet Jews settling in Israel or the US are not called Soviet refugees two generations later. So I just don't get this. They may have miserable lives and no means to support themselves. But I don't understand the refugee status. To me, that sounds like holding onto the mantle of victimhood.
Also, after Israel withdrew from Gaza, why wasn't there (or maybe there was and I just don't know) some effort by Arab countries, the EU and the US to aid Gaza in building home and infrastructure, schools, businesses, etc.
Why do supplies have to go into Gaza from Israel. Why doesn't it all go through Egypt so Israel a) has a closed border for security reasons and b) doesn't control flow of food and other goods to Gaza and can't use it as a weapon?
Makes total sense to me, CG. And since it's logical, it's not a viable plan, I'm sure. Bummer.
I have seen that commercial Coyote. What you said here was nothing compared to what I yelled at my teevee screen. The part that gets me is the "stand with Israel against terrorism."
I get it, Hamas has been declared a terrorist organization. So it is technically correct. But the commercial is manipulative and biased.
Yes, both sides are at fault -- but right now, in this particular time of conflict, I see Palenstine as the "victims."
I see Israel as the aggressor.
I believe that the people are considered refugees because their homes have been bombed to bits. Even if they were not "refugees" two days ago, they are now, because their homes have been destroyed in the last week. That is the thing.
As for aid coming in, I believe that (but I have not studied this issue well enough so I might be talking out of my ass) but I believe that Israel has all kinds of rules and regulations about how and when and who can provide aid and which direction it can flow, etc, etc.
In the UN they just approved aid but there is some rules about who controls the water and which ships can come in and all of that crap. Someone help me out here...someone who knows these things.
After Katrina, for an hour or two, the people displaced were called "refugees" and there was a huge outcry because they were US citizens in the US. A refugee is someone who flees to a foreign country.
There's propaganda on both sides of course. I think that calling people who lost their homes in 1948 and are now living full lives in Jordan refugees along with their grandchildren is propaganda to some extent.
Another thing is talking about Israel and Hamas. When Israel invaded Lebanon a couple summers ago, it was a war between Israel and Hezbollah. Hezbollah is not the government of Lebanon. But Hamas is the government of Gaza, fairly elected. So it's not "Hamas" firing rockets into Israel. It's Gaza attacking Israeli civilians. That sounds a little bit different. Doesn't matter if Hamas is a terrorist organization or not. Gaza was firing rockets into Israel.
It would be like saying "The Bush administration" invaded Iraq. Yeah, we'd all like to hear it phrased that way, but it's not. The US invaded Iraq. Gaza attacked Israel.
Anjha, you're probably right about imports to Gaza. If they ever get back to the peace process, that would be something that would have to be worked out, I'm sure. But from what I was reading, Egypt controls its border with Gaza unless I'm forgetting what I read an hour ago, which is entirely possible.
The US invaded Iraq. Gaza attacked Israel.
Now I understand why Bush and Condi weren't concerned that Hamas won the election. So they could make this distinction. Fuckers. All of 'em.
OT, but it turns out Coulter wasn't banned from NBC at all; she was bumped for Tony Blair. She made up all sorts of whiny ass shit to get attention, and is now trying to say NBC was forced to have her on, because Drudge had a headline.
Is she trying to make us believe in her entire sordid "career" she's never been bumped for a more important guest and rescheduled? Are we supposed to believe that she didn't already know she was rescheduled and that her whining wasn't an obviously desperate publicity stunt by a has-been hack?
The only question left to ask is, "was NBC or the Today Show complicit in this obvious and awkward publicity stunt?" I believe it was. Which is why I haven't watched that bilge since Tom Brokaw and Jane Pauley were the hosts.
The US invaded Iraq. Gaza attacked Israel.
Now I understand why Bush and Condi weren't concerned that Hamas won the election. So they could make this distinction. Fuckers. All of 'em.
They don't make the distinction though. No one does.
Yeah, CG. Jon Stewart did a montage of talking headlice, and every single one were railing against Hamas, not Gaza. I thought Stewart struck a pretty good tone about the situation.
I thought Stewart struck a pretty good tone about the situation.
Yes, he somehow manages to do that.
Which is pretty bad, if you think about it. A comedian can talk better about things than the fookin' politicians or reporters. Sick world.
"Why do supplies have to go into Gaza from Israel. Why doesn't it all go through Egypt so Israel a) has a closed border for security reasons and b) doesn't control flow of food and other goods to Gaza and can't use it as a weapon?"
CG, I have never understood that either, as it has been used as a weapon against those in Gaza. Anyone know the answer?
This link seems like a pretty good explanation.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/9221/impact_of_the_gaza_border_deal.html
It sounds like Egypt just can't meet Gaza's needs and Gaza is dependent on Israel for import/export routes, fuel, electricity, jobs, etc. Israel controls Gaza's airspace and territorial waters.
OMG> OMG> OMG>
Do you all see Rachel's guest the Australian newspaper correspondent Geoff Elliot!!!
Holy crap. What a doll.
Rachel said "we are honored to have you" -----damn, I would be honored to have him! DAMN.
There's yer reason to watch Rachel.
Anjha, I have the same reaction to one of my Mom's doctors. In my 67 years I have never seen such a handsome man, and on top of that, he has a great personality and a kind nature. He is absolutely drop dead handsome!
OMG, life gets stranger and stranger. Joe the Plumber becomes a War correspondent. He will be reporting what the little guy on the street in Israel thinks. The crazy times are still with us.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4517715971621462038&postID=6939073680013866663&isPopup=true
Let's try that again.
http://news.aol.com/article/joe-the-plumber-to-cover-gaza-conflict/297335?icid=200100397x1216920632x1201026206
I saw that about Joe the Plumber. Good grief. Aren't his 15 minutes of fame over yet?
My synagogue's 8th and 9th graders are going to visit a local Islamic center on Sunday. Interesting timing. I'm sure it will all be fine, but it's got to be a little bit uncomfortable. My husband works with a Palestinian and as Israeli. I'm sure they never discuss what's going on.
CG, thanks for the link. I hope to have time to study that today. I have a lot of work to do and I do not have the time to play on the 'Nets.
AND, excellent Synagogue field trip CG. Sometimes I wonder if I miss out on that kind of fellowship because I do not belong to any kind of church or anything; actually, not me - not that I miss out, but maybe kiddo does. I have had plenty of other opportunity with other groups, etc to have fellowship and events like the above, but kiddo does not. I have offered him the opportunity, now that he is older and his own opinions are fairly well-formed and he cannot be "molded" in a particular way by any particular organized religion - I have offered him the opportunity to check out different churches, etc and he has been to temple with one of his Jewish friends - but he does not want to do any of that.
He is involved in our local district Democratic group and he seems to enjoy that. I have exposed him to a whole lot of different and interesting organizations and he keeps himself really busy with different cultural interests, but he does not get the same opportunity like the one that you have listed above. Mainly because I am too sick to drag him around to all of the different groups and meetings and things that we discuss and that I might be a member of via dues but am too sick to attend.
Judith - holy crap, the guy came on the teevee and I was blown away with his adorableness. There was no one to share it with. I yelled out something like "wow is he doable!!" Husband continued to snore away on the couch and kiddo was in his room on the computer and no one was around to go "YA, he sure is!" So, I just had to post it, not appropriate thread, but it was the top one.
Joe the Plumber is a piece of work. I have to hand it to him though, he sure knows how to ride his 15 minutes.
Anjah, you're sick? This sounds like an ongoing, long-term thing? Sorry to hear that.
Yes, CG. I am chronically ill hence the bitchy thing that tends to come out when I have had it for the day. I try to save it for the trolls but sometimes it his you all or my family and then I have to apologize...it is not fair to allow my pain to be reflected in my conversations with you guys. It is not your fault, sometimes though it just breaks through.
I have Crohn's Disease and Ankylosing Spondylitis (which is just a fancy way of saying a shitload of pain in all of my joints.) The Crohn's is on and off under control via major medication which lowers my immune response which is why I have been down with Pneumonia and its lingering [whatever] since before Thanksgiving.
Went to see an Infectious Disease doc yesterday who is making certain that I do not have one of those scary opportunistic diseases that hit people with poor immune systems but I am sure that it is just me taking a long, long time to get over a virus.
That's my story. Thanks for asking.
Wow, Anjha, I'm so sorry to hear that. I know 2 other people with Crohn's though it doesn't seem to affect one too badly. I'd never heard of the other and had to look it up--sounds terrible. Hope you get over the virus soon at least.
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